An Emergent Interactionist Understanding of Human Consciousness

Charles T. Tart

[This paper was originally published in "Brain/Mind and Parapsychology: Proceedings of an International
Conference," held in Montreal, Canada, August 24-25, 1978 under the auspices of the Parapsychology Foundation,
New York, NY. Edited by Betty Shapin and Lisette Coly.]

Abstract

I have proposed the beginnings of a dualistic theory of consciousness, Emergent Interactionism, which is intended to be
scientifically useful and has empirical, testable consequences. The existence of psi phenomena, which are
paraconceptual for a physicalistic monism, is the basic evidence for a pragmatic dualism, a recognition of the need to
understand consciousness in terms of two qualitatively different aspects of reality, what I have called the B system, the
brain, body, and nervous system and the physical laws which govern it, and the M/L system, the mental and life aspects
of reality. Consciousness is seen as a system property, an emergent from the auto-psi interaction of the B and M/L
systems. Ultimate understanding of consciousness, then, while it requires further and extensive development of
conventional approaches in the study of brain functioning and physical law, also requires extensive development of our
knowledge of psi, as well as development of general systems theory so principles of emergence in complex systems can
be better understood. While this view is complex, it is more adequate to the reality of psi than a physicalistic monism,
and exciting discoveries await us!

Article

Introduction

Throughout my career I have been interested in a range of phenomena I usually group under the heading of states of
consciousness, phenomena dealing with the fascinating, multitudinous changes that can take place in people's mode of
experience. While changes in the manifestations of consciousness can be studied without asking any fundamental
questions about the nature of consciousness, so avoiding dilemmas that have puzzled philosophers through the ages, I
have, nevertheless, always been curious as to the ultimate nature of consciousness, and I have found parapsychological
phenomena to be of extreme value in pointing the direction of an answer to that question. What I shall share with you
today is the beginnings of a scientific approach to understanding the basic nature of consciousness, an approach that I
call Emergent Interactionist , an approach that would be classified philosophically as dualistic, and yet has empirical
consequences and so can be classified as scientific. I do not lay any great claim to originality in this approach as I have
drawn on multitudinous sources for the basic ideas, but I hope the particular way I have put these ideas together will be
useful in understanding human consciousness. I shall also apologize it) advance for the crudeness and gaps in these
formulations, for, while I have touched on these ideas for years, this is my first attempt to express them more
systematically.

My observational base for trying to understand consciousness begins with my own experience which is then expanded
by my experiences of the world and others about me. Perhaps the most striking thing about my own experience is the
obviously different nature of my consciousness from the physical world about me. Despite difficulties in knowing
precisely how to think it or express it, it is simply a given that there is something fundamentally different about the
experiences I call my mental processes from what I call the external world. This basic distinction has been drawn by
multitudes of others, and in formal philosophy has been called a dualistic position, a formal postulation of some

fundamentally different qualities of mind and matter, such that the
nature of one cannot be adequately explained by or reduced to the
other.

I have had no formal training in philosophy, but at times I have
attempted to study philosophical literature on the nature of
consciousness, and, I must admit, I have always come away
baffled and disappointed. Once the basic distinction between mind
and matter is postulated, I get the feeling that most philosophers
restrict themselves to playing word games, dealing with purely
semantic distinctions, and end up with a dualistic position that

might or might not be true; but the truth or falsity of that dualism does not seem to have any useful experimental or
experiential consequences that I can discern. I am not comfortable with making a distinction that has no consequences,
and I am strongly committed to the kind of scientific pragmatism that says observable consequences (whether physical
or experiential) have priority over intellectual formulations.

Monistic Views

In terms of acceptance by the intellectual and scientific community, monistic philosophies, which postulate that mind
and matter are basically manifestations of the same thing, that they are totally reducible to one another, are the accepted
philosophies. This is particularly so in orthodox science. Figure 1 for example, taken from my States of Consciousness
book (Tart, 1975a), diagrams the widely accepted scientific view of consciousness, what I have called the "orthodox"
or scientifically conservative view of the mind. The basic reality that is being dealt with in this diagram is physical
reality, fixed physical reality, immutable laws. As a result of these laws a particular physical system comes into
existence, the brain and its associated nervous system and body (which I shall just refer to as brain for short for the rest
of this paper). Many aspects of this brain are fixed in their functioning: instructions for your kidneys to work, for
example, are encoded in the physical structure of the brain and ordinarily never changed. This physical structure also
has many programmable capacities, so our culture, our language, the various events of our personal history, and our
interactions with physical reality teach us a language, a way of thinking, values, and mores, etc. This large computer-
like physical structure then functions in a wide variety of complex ways. At any given moment we are aware of only a
small fraction of the total functioning of it, and this tiny fraction of physical functioning that we are aware of is
consciousness as we experience it.

Figure 1. An orthodox. monistic representation of the nature of human consciousness. Reproduced from C. Tart, States
of Consciousness. Dutton. 1975, by permission of the publisher.

In presenting this model I have added something called "pure awareness" in the upper part of it, which can refer in a
general way for our context here to those feelings of mental activity which do not seem tied to obvious bodily
functioning, such, as certain meditative experiences or various altered states experiences. More formally. I have used
the term pure awareness to mean that raw proto-experience of knowing that something is happening before that
experience gets highly elaborated and articulated into semantic categories where it has obviously been influenced by
brain structure. In the figure, I show pure awareness as "emerging" from the physical structure of the brain. That is, this
is a representation of the monistic psychoneural identity hypothesis, which says that while we might find it convenient
to distinguish certain types of mental activity for semantic purposes, all experience is, in principle, completely
reducible to physical activity within the brain. In practice we are a long way from being able to carry out this reduction
due to the sheer complexity of the brain, but in principle the orthodox scientific view believes this is possible.

The psychoneural identity approach is clearly a useful scientific approach, for it has observable consequences. It
predicts, for example. that a physiological correlate of any and every kind of experience can ultimately be found. It
further predicts that no experiences can occur in reality that violate the basic physical laws and system operation laws
that govern the operation of the brain, although the brain may produce illusory experiences that seem to violate basic
physical laws.

Complexity

In mentioning laws governing systems operation, I am reminded of the other disappointment I have always had with
formal philosophical writings on the nature of consciousness. That is their typical obsession with an absolutistic
understanding of simple mental events, when it has always been obvious to me that consciousness represents an
exceptionally complex system, not a simple mechanism. Probably, my early experience in working with electronic
systems. where alterations in one component can have many effects on the whole system operation, effects which are
often not at all obviously predictable beforehand, sensitized me to this issue. Modern brain theory now recognizes the
complexity of the brain and nervous system. Starting from a simplistic approach that likened each neural junction to a
relay and thought the complexity of brain function could be handled by a simple additive operation of all these
individual relay operations, modern understandings of the brain are increasingly looking to general systems theory to
provide general laws about emergent properties of brain functioning properties that are holistic outcomes of total
system operation rather than simple linear additions of more basic subsystem elements. The Emergent Interactionism
approach to understanding consciousness that I shall outline here tries to take this complexity, these emergent system
properties of brain functioning (and, as we shall see, of mind functioning) into account, as well as dealing with the
fundamental experience of a dualistic difference between experience and the physical world.

As a final introductory note, I should say that if I had to characterize my philosophical bias it is to be pragmatic. As a
scientist, I am committed to the proposition that data, that experience, is primary, and our conceptualizations, our
theories about the meaning of that data are secondary. If I cannot adequately or logically express my experience that is
a shortcoming of my philosophy or grammar, not an invalidation of my experience. Theories must always be adjusted
to account for the data, and theories must have consequences in terms of observable data. If my theory has no testable
consequences, it may be intellectually interesting, but it is not scientifically worthwhile. I believe that the dualistic
theory of consciousness I shall now present has such testable consequences and so forms the basis of a scientific set of
theories about consciousness.

An aspect of this pragmatism is that I do not want to get into the kind of absolutism that marks philosophical discourse.
I have no way to satisfactorily define concepts like mind versus matter or mind versus brain in any kind of absolute
fashion. If I say that something is mental or non material, what I am saying is that something seems to have observable
or experiencable properties which cannot be adequately explained in terms of our current understanding of the physical
world. or reasonable extrapolations of that understanding. It is quite possible that future advances at the cutting edge of
physics will drastically change our conception of what is and is not "physical." and what can and cannot be handled
within a physical explanatory system. Thus, in distinguishing mind and brain, I am doing no more than making
distinctions which are pragmatically useful at present. regardless of their absolute validity.

Paraconceptual Phenomena

The basic support for my dualistic approach to understanding consciousness comes from the excellent scientific
evidence for the existence of certain "paranormal" phenomena. Given our current understanding of the physical world,
it is possible to talk about isolating or shielding one event from another so that no known, feasible form of information
transfer channel exists between these two isolated events. If we now make physical observations, either the behaviors
of people or the readings of physical instruments, which indicate that an information or energy transfer has nevertheless
occurred between two isolated events. we have a paranormal or, more appropriately, a paraconceptual event. We have
an observation that cannot be satisfactorily explained by our theories. Since the majority of the population in America
believe they have experienced some kinds of psi. (Greeley, 1975). these events are hardly paranormal, beyond the
norm, but they are certainly paraconceptual to the orthodox, current scientific view of how the physical universe works.

While there have been many types of observations reported on purported paraconceptual events, we have only had
extensive experimental work on four kinds of experimental situations. leading us to postulate the existence of four basic
types of paraconceptual events namely telepathy. clairvoyance. precognition. and psychokinesis (PK). collectively
referred to as psi events. There are dozens of experimental reports supporting the existence of each of these kinds of
effects. Typically. we define telepathy as mind to mind communication, clairvoyance as matter to mind communication
or sensing the physical state of affairs directly with the mind, precognition as predicting a future state of events (that we
might further subdivide into precognitive telepathy or precognitive clairvoyance). and psychokinesis as directly
effecting a state of physical events simply by wishing for it. These conventional types of definitions have an implicit
dualism in them, so we could be more formal and distinguish the above four phenomena simply by the kinds of

experimental operations by which they have been established. Thus, telepathy becomes
a matter of a percipient making a behavioral response that is supposed to relate to what
is in someone else's mind (as judged by his behavior), clairvoyance as perception of a
physical event that is not in anyone's mind (as fixed by the experimental situation) at
the time. The percipient makes his responses. etc. We know, of course, that there has
been no satisfactory way to absolutely demonstrate the existence of "pure" telepathy,
for if you keep a physical record of the target in order to insure objectivity of scoring,
then clairvoyance is always possible. even though we have a little evidence for pure
telepathy (McMahan, 1946). Nevertheless, these common distinctions are useful.

The existence of these paraconceptual or psi phenomena provides a general basis for
arguing that a dualistic view of mind and matter is a useful and realistic view; that is,

that it reflects the nature of things rather than just being a semantically convenient distinction. The monistic view of
mind and matter, the psychoneural identity hypothesis so widely accepted in science, is one result of a world view that
totally denies the existence of psi phenomena as we experimentally know them. The existence of psi phenomena is a
clearcut scientific demonstration, however, that our understanding of the nature of a physical world is quite inadequate
and will require major revisions. These paraconceptual events demonstrate the incompleteness of the overall conceptual
system from which monism is derived. Thus, in a general sense, we can argue that a psychoneural identity position is
far from proven, because it rests on an incomplete and, therefore, faulty conceptual system.

My psychological studies of consciousness and states of consciousness, as well as and especially my parapsychological
studies, have forced me to go a step further than this and postulate that experience and high quality scientific data
basically indicate that mind is of a fundamentally different nature than matter as we know it today, and, more
specifically, postulate that certain psi functions are the mechanisms of mind-brain interaction. Consciousness, as we
experience it, is an emergent property of this mind-brain interaction. This theory is represented in simplified form in

Figure 2

.

Figure 2. Simplified representation of the Emergent Interactionist position, in which consciousness, as experienced, is
an emergent, system property of two basically different component systems interacting via psi.

The physical structure of the brain is represented on the left hand side of Figure 2. We shall not be concerned with its
internal structure or inherent system properties for the moment. The dualistic factor I shall begin calling mind/life is
represented on the right hand side of the figure. I add the "life" designation to this side of the figure to point out that the
"non physical" aspect of consciousness is not always a matter of mental experience, it includes a general "vitalistic"
effect of mind/life that is more basic than conscious experience.

Consciousness. as we ordinarily experience it, is the higher level emergent of the psi interaction of brain and mind/life.
To put it more formally, experienced consciousness is a system property, an emergent, of the complex interaction of the
subsystems of brain on the one hand and the mind/life factor on the other.

The brain is, of course, the link between consciousness and the world about us. Environmental factors are detected
through the sense organs and end up as electrical/chemical patterns within the brain. Actions begin as
electrical/chemical patterns within the brain and end up as specific impulses to motor apparatus that create our overt
behavior. The brain is an ultra-complex and especially interesting structure, however, for while many aspects of brain
functioning seem completely determined, such as basic reflexes, many other important aspects seem to be under the
control of quasi-random or fully random processes, that is, they are controlled by neurons or neural ensembles that are
often almost but-not-quite ready to fire. My Emergent Interactionism approach postulates that the mind/life factor
cognizes important aspects of the state of the brain by means of clairvoyance, that is, that mind/life uses clairvoyance to
'read" the brain and thus the state of the body and the body's immediate sensory world. Further, the action of the brain
is influenced at critical junctures by PK from mind/ life: that is, in addition to self-organizational system properties of
its own, there are control functions exerted over the brain by mind/life through psychokinetic modification of brain
firing. The holistic emergent of this interaction, the mutual interaction and mutual patterning of brain and mind/life on
each other via clairvoyance and PK, leads to an overall pattern of functioning and experience that is consciousness as
we experience it. Ordinarily, when we consult our own experience, we do not experience what brain alone is like, or

experience what mind alone is like;
we experience the emergent from
their interaction, for which I use the
term consciousness.

Having sketched the basic
postulates of Emergent
Interactionism in terms of "brain,"
"consciousness," and "mind/life," I
must now face the semantic
problem that others have used these
terms in wider and overlapping
ways, as I myself have done in the
past. While I could request that you
listen to these terms in just the way
I define them, it is not that easy to
drop lifetime associative patterns,

so I shall try to avoid semantic problems by adopting more neutral abbreviations for the remainder of this paper. I shall
use the term "B system" to refer to those physical functions of the brain, body, and nervous system that we already
understand in physical concepts or expect to understand with straightforward extensions of current physical concepts. I
shall use the term "M/L system" for those non-physical (by current and straightforward extensions of current physical
concepts) aspects I have been calling mind/life. I shall retain "consciousness," with a reminder that I restrict it to our
usual experience of ourselves, not to more exotic experiences. As for the psi interactions, I shall add the prefix autoto
designate psi in general or clairvoyance or PK in particular that is concerned with a person's M/L system interacting
with his own B system: thus auto-psi, auto-clairvoyance (auto-CL in later diagrams), and auto-PK. For those cases
where psi reaches outside the bounds of the normal B system and M/L system interrelationship, as when we ask a
percipient to tell us, e.g., what the order of a sealed deck of cards is, I shall add the prefix allo-: thus allo-psi in general,
or more specifically allo-clairvoyance, allo-PK, allo-telepathy, etc.

Figure 2 was a very general schematic of B system and M/L system interaction and their emergent properties. A more
realistic schematic. using just present knowledge, would be of the sort shown in

Figure 3

.

Figure 3. The Emergent Interactionist representation of consciousness.

This figure brings in a number of further considerations. First, there are various hierarchical levels of organization in
the B system alone, without even beginning to bring the M/L system into the picture. The lowest level shown on the
left hand side of the figure would be individual neurons, and while these have properties we are beginning to
understand fairly well, they are organized into basic neural ensembles at the next level, so this next systems level has
emergent properties. That is, simple neuron ensembles can have properties which are not clearly predicted from those
of neurons alone. These level two neuron ensembles are influenced by the lower level properties of neurons, and these
level two properties in turn influence level one functioning, thus the arrows representing interaction. Similarly, neuron
ensembles are organized into more complex ensembles etc., up to very high levels of complexity. System, emergent
properties occur at all these various levels, as do numerous and complex interactions. It will not be an easy job to
understand the B system, especially since the brain alone, without even bringing in the M/L system, is so many orders
of magnitude more complex than any well understood present day system, such as computers.

Although we know far more about the B system than the M/L system. I have assumed, on the basis of the symmetry
principle (Tart. 1975a, chapter 18) that the M/L system itself is probably a system of many hierarchical levels, and have
diagramed it accordingly on the right. I have avoided putting any labeling on that part of the scheme other than
distinguishing the most basic life "energies" at the lowest levels versus more "mental" levels higher up in the system
hierarchy. This is a matter of being cautious and not pretending to know more than we do know, but it seems very
likely that there are fundamental aspects of the M/L system that interact with each other, produce more complex,
emergent system properties. and so on, as with B system processes. All interaction within the M/L system is mediated
by some kind of auto-psi, which might or might not be the same kind of psi automediating M/L system and B system

interactions. Thus we have an emergence of system properties on the M/L side of the diagram as well as the B system
side.

I have shown auto-clairvoyance and auto-PK interactions between the B and M/L systems as potentially occurring
between similar hierarchical levels of B and M/L subsystems, as well as potential cross level auto-psi interactions.
There is probably no single locus of interaction of auto-clairvoyance and auto-PK between the B and M/L systems, but
a variety of interactions occurring at different levels. Lower level auto-psi interactions between B and M/L systems,
then, may change the isolated properties of both neural tissue and basic life energies at those lower levels, which in turn
are reflected in further interactions and system property emergence in both the B and M/L system levels, further
complicating interactions at higher levels.

I regret that this is not the simplistic kind of picture we seem to prefer, but real systems are complex! If one could
separate out B system properties alone, one would observe an emergent that I have labeled as "mechanical brain" at the
top of the left hand systems hierarchy. Similarly, if one could separate out M/L system properties and functionings
without any interactions with brain ones, one would observe something I have called "pure awareness" at the top of the
M/L side of the diagram. I suspect that we actually have some data on both of these relatively pure cases, but not in a
form we can clearly recognize and make use of. Some meditative practices, for example. or variants of out-of-the-body
experiences, lead to experiences which are usually described as "ineffable," that is, they cannot be expressed in terms of
the emergent of language which deals with consciousness: these may be instances of isolated M/L system operation.

This has been a basic outline of the Emergent Interactionist position. Let us now consider a variety of topics from this
point of view, starting with the psychological factor of automatization.

Automatization

A very important psychological consideration to now introduce into this Emergent Interactionism approach is that of
automatization. the habitual, automatic way that consciousness seems to function a great deal of the time. Much of this
results from the socialization process where various assumptions and habit patterns become implicit. That is, these
processes lead to semi-permanent physical modifications in the B system which automatically tend to guide B system
functioning (and M/L system interaction) along certain lines, lines which simply seem like the "natural" way of doing
things, a process I have discussed at length elsewhere (Tart. 1975a). What this means in terms of the Emergent
Interactionism position is that a great deal of information processing, decision making, perception and action may take
place in the B system without there necessarily being any auto-psi interaction with the M/L system. The B system, as it
were, can do a good many things "on automatic," without the M/L system being involved. We shall consider aspects of
this in more detail later. For now, this point can be illustrated by considering this Emergent Interactionist point of view
as analogous with the operation of a "smart" computer terminal.

An ordinary computer terminal consists essentially of a keyboard or other input device whose sole function is to
transmit and receive data from a remote computer. The remote computer does some kind of processing of the
information and sends back output, it sends "decisions" back to the ordinary computer terminal which simply prints
them out unaltered. The smart computer terminal, on the other hand, actually has a small computer of its own built into
the terminal. Certain kinds of data may be inputted to this terminal and, rather than simply transmitting it unaltered to
the remote computer, the terminal will carry out some processing on the data right there. The resulting abstractions or
transformations of the input data may then be sent to the remote computer when the remote computer is ready to accept
them and/or an output, a decision, maybe made right there at the smart computer terminal and activate its output printer
or control devices.

Let the B system be analogous with the smart computer terminal. and the M/L system be analogous to the remote
computer. A good deal of information processing from both sensory input and internal. habitual concerns is carried on
by the mechanical processes of the B system alone and outputs (behaviors) made. For much of this, there may be no
auto-psi connection with the "remote" computer, the M/L system, at all. Sometimes, however, the remote computer is
consulted and it modifies the action of the B system, the smart computer terminal, in ways which are not predictable
from a knowledge of the smart computer terminal alone. The kinds of behaviors Stanford (1974a; 1974b) has described
as psi-mediated instrumental responses (PMIRs) are excellent examples of this. Given the sensory and stored

information available to the person and the processing capacities of the B system, he does not have the information
necessary to reach a decision' to carry out a certain kind of action which will be need relevant, yet he nevertheless
behaves appropriately, fur the M/ L system has used allo-psi to gather the needed information and then influenced B
system processes by auto-psi to modify the final emergent, the person's behavior, in ways which are need relevant. In
the PMIR, the auto-psi process need not actually modify the emergent of conscious experience, however; the person
just does the right thing without knowing why.

I believe the tremendous complexity of the B system and the automatization of much of its action in the course of
ordinary socialization offers a partial explanation for why allo-psi about external events does not work very well in our
ordinary state of consciousness. The information processing activity in the B system has become habitual and
continuous, and it ties up most or all of the processing capacity of the B system. In terms of possible allo-psi messages
being received or allo-psi outputs being initiated (via auto-psi intermediation), this produces a very high noise level that
makes it unlikely that auto-psi will be able to influence the B system or vice versa. This view is congruent with various
experimental data we have that indicate that allo-psi conducive states involve cutting down internal noise levels from
irrelevant B system processes. In my extended presentation of my theory that immediate feedback will help learning
(Tart, 1977c), I also stress that learning to discriminate the relevant psi signals from internal B system noise is a major
requirement of success.

Altered States of Consciousness

In my systems approach to understanding altered states of consciousness (Lee et al., 1975; Tart, 1974; 1975a; 1976;
l977b; 1977d; in press a; in press b), I defined a discrete altered state of consciousness (d-ASC) as a radical pattern
change in the functioning ()f consciousness, a combination both of particular subsystems or aspects of consciousness
changing as well as the consequent emergent, system properties of consciousness changing. I was careful not to bring
in serious dualistic considerations there, in order not to arouse possible prejudices in the psychologist audience the
theory was primarily intended for. Thus while I talked about "awareness" as constituting a kind of activating energy for
affecting the operation of subsystems of consciousness, I was careful to legitimatize this usage as primarily a matter of
semantic convenience, if one adopted a monistic position. For the dualistic Emergent Interactionism position I am now
proposing. however, some further distinctions about the nature of altered states of consciousness can be made.

Any discrete state of consciousness (d-SoC) consists of a particular pattern of functioning, a system functioning both
within B system and M/L system levels. The d-SoC, the experienced consciousness, is the emergent from the
interaction of both of these B and M/L levels of organization. A discrete altered state of consciousness, a radical pattern
shift, can be induced by either (1) changing the organization of subsystems of the B system alone; (2) changing the
organization of subsystems of the M/L system alone; and/or (3) changing the nature of the auto-psi interactions
between B and M/L system levels. In terms of observable consequences of this Emergent Interactionist understanding,
some d-ASC will turn out to be explainable strictly in terms of alterations of B system functioning, but others will not
be reducible simply to alterations in B system functioning.

This view that some d-ASC are primarily functions of M/L system changes or auto-psi interaction changes has
important implications for parapsychological research. We have a scattering of evidence to suggest that various altered
states may be conducive to psi functioning. This may be partially due to the fact that well ingrained B system habits
(automatisms) that create the noise that interferes with psi functioning in our ordinary state, are no longer functioning
as strongly due to changes in B system operation. It may also mean that certain d-ASC have their balance of
functioning shifted more toward the M/L system side, for which psi is a direct mode of expression. Thus we might
expect some important breakthroughs for enhancing allo-psi by discovering which particular d-ASC are most favorable
in this way.

Ordinary Psi and Non-Ordinary Psi

Given this Emergent Interactionist view of consciousness, it becomes clear that psi is being used a large amount of the
time in everyone's life, but is being used, as it were, "internally". We frequently use autoclairvoyance to read our own B
system and auto-PK to affect our B systems. This is ordinary psi, auto-psi. What we observe in parapsychological
experiments, however, is non-ordinary psi, it is taking a process ordinarily confined "within" a single organism and

pushing it outside, making it allo-psi. I have tried to
represent the general situation in an amplified model
of consciousness in

Figure 4

.

Figure 4. Psi processes within and external to the
organism, from the emergent Interactionist point of
view.

When the M/L system leads the state of its own B
system, we term this auto-clairvoyance auto-CL in
the figure); when the M/L system influences B
system operation we term it auto-PK. The unusual
use of psi outside of the organism results in allo-
clairvoyance (allo-CL) to obtain information about
the external environment, and allo-PK to affect the
external environment. This is non-B system matter to
M/L system information flow, and M/ L system to
non-B system information/energy flow.
Communication from one distinct M/L system to
another, telepathy, can be subdivided into receptive
telepathy, picking up information from another M/L
system, and projective telepathy, sending information

to another M/L system, a useful division for maintaining symmetry with the clairvoyance and PK processes. Given our
terminological convention, telepathy is a form of allo-psi. Indeed, the fundamental distinction seems to be with psi that
deals with M/L system to M/L system interaction, and psi that deals with matter and M/L system interaction. There is,
of course, a methodological problem in trying to observe "pure" allo-telepathy, for, if we want objective verification of
it through the senses, we have to add in auto-PK to have a behavioral manifestation of the information.

On the B system side of consciousness, sensory input brings in information about the matter world around us,
automatically abstracts this information along value lines and creates a continuous simulation of our environment
(which we call perceiving the world). Motor output sends, though our various musculatures, information and energy
back out into that matter world. I have shown the sensory input and motor output arrows, and the auto-CL and auto-PK
arrows in heavy lines to represent the most prominent information flow channels ordinarily active in an organism. I
have also drawn in consciousness as experienced as a circle around these other processes, to remind us that it is an
emergent of B system and M/L system auto-psi interaction.

Earlier I listed precognition as one of the basic psi phenomena but I am now inclined not to consider the temporal
distinction as basic. In Figure 4 I have indicated that the M/L aspect of consciousness has a low inherent degree of
localization in space and time (an idea developed further in my discussion of trans-temporal inhibition (Tart. 1977a:
1978)) while the B system aspect of consciousness is very highly localized in space and time. That is, the B system
belongs to an order of reality in which you can specify with great confidence that a particular event is happening at a
certain time, at a certain location in space and possesses highly specifiable and predictable matter and physical energy
properties. The M/L system, on the other hand, is not so localized in terms of physical space/time measures. While it
usually centers around the here and now of B system space and time, it is more widely spread than that (thus the need
for trans-temporal inhibition in efficient ESP), and can volitionally focus at different spatial and temporal location than
the B system and its associated sensory and motor apparatus can. To be more speculative, I suspect the very diffuseness
or non-localization of the M/L system has something to do with the reason that it is associated with a particular B
system, for that B system acts as a stabilizing, influence on the operation of the M/L system, it focuses and anchors that
M/ L system to a particular location and moment in space and time for evolutionary reasons. Indeed, as far as biological
survival is concerned, events within the sensory range of the B system are almost always the most important ones for
the organism to be concerned with, so the style of M/ L system interaction with the B system would evolve toward
maximizing the efficiency of the B system consciousness for biological survival. To the extent to which this becomes
habitual and automatized, this would be a reason why allo-psi seems relatively rare: the psi capacity is almost totally,

used up in auto-psi functioning which is geared to maximizing the functioning of the total organism in its physical
environment.

Special Sensitivity of B System to Psi

The B system, from this Emergent Interactionism point of view, has two main properties. First are many self-
organizing properties, independent of interaction with the M/L system, that are adaptive in dealing with the needs for
maintaining homeostasis within the physical organism and dealing effectively with the physical environment. Second,
it must have properties that not only make it receptive to M/L system influences via auto-PK, it should be efficiently
receptive to these influences in order to maximize survival potential. This means semi-independent associative and
decision making properties. "perceptual" properties, with respect to M/L system influences that compensate for
inefficiencies and deficiencies in the interaction. The B system, for example. should automatically fill in a message
from the M/L system that is a little incomplete and, in cases of doubt, fill it in along lines which are most relevant to
biological survival. For example, if an ambiguous pattern seen in some bushes could be a tiger, it is highly adaptive for
the simulation of the environment to make you perceive it as a tiger and take fast action, rather than ignore it because
you aren't sure it's a tiger. The receptive function of the B system, then, for auto-PK, is likely to be elaborative as well
as efficiently receptive, and, by being elaborative, it can be prone, like any similar communication system, to produce
incorrect outputs.

This line of reasoning has two important consequences for parapsychological research. First, the B system must be
especially sensitive to auto-PK, and, insofar as auto-PK and allo-PK are probably manifestations of the same
fundamental process, investigation of what aspects of B system functioning make it especially sensitive to PK should
be of great value in designing other physical processes which would be sensitive PK detectors. Second, not only does
the M/L system need to use an appropriate allo-psi process to gather the relevant information some distant target other
than the percipient's own B system, this information must be then put into, or influence the B system of the percipient
by auto-PK effects on B system functioning, in order to get relevant information into the emergent consciousness of the
percipient, information which he can then express behaviorally so we can observe it. Auto-PK at least needs to affect
relevant aspects of the B system so we can observe a behavioral or physiological effect that manifests the psi
information, even if it does not reach the percipient's consciousness. But, the B system is constantly producing an
adaptive simulation of the percipient's immediate sensory environment (modified by his psychological concerns) in a
way largely independent of current B and M/L system interactions, and this constitutes a high noise level that the auto-
PK information carrying the allo-psi information must compete with. Further, the elaborative aspects of the B system's
receptivity to auto-PK means that there is a strong probability that the psi message will tend to be elaborated/distorted
in ways which fit the ongoing, survival-oriented simulation of the immediate physical environment being continuously
constructed by the B system. The very "efficiency" and partial independence of the B system, then, automatically
makes some distortion of allo-psi messages likely. Given this as a basic characteristic of the B system, practical
measures to increase the incidence of psi in parapsychological experiments would need to involve some combination of
B system noise reduction (as in. e.g. ganzfeld techniques), discrimination training (as in immediate feedback training),
and enhanced discriminability of the allo-psi targets themselves (distinct remote locations, e.g. versus similar playing
cards differing only in number).

Complexity of Psi Tasks

The B system is obviously an incredibly complex system, so auto-psi interaction with the M/L system must also be of a
very complex nature. This leads to an interesting comparison: the kinds of allo-ESP and allo-PK tasks we have given
percipients and agents in the laboratory have probably been enormously simple (and perhaps trivial) compared to what
is routinely done by auto-clairvoyance and auto-PK. In an earlier modeling of PK along conventional lines (Tart, 1966:
1977c). for example. I argued that influencing a tumbling die by PK is quite complex, requiring continuous clairvoyant
feedback about its three dimensional motion and mass-energy parameters and the surface characteristics of the surface
it would bounce against, so just the right amount of PK force could be applied in just the right places and directions at
just the right moments. This is, indeed, a formidable task from the viewpoint of physical mechanics as we currently
conceive it. but from the point of view of an M/L system used to constantly reading and influencing enormous numbers
of cells in a dynamically changing brain, the task may well be so trivial as to be hardly capable of attracting much

attention! Similarly, the circuits of the electronic random number generators which have been influenced by allo-PK
may also be trivially simple compared to the typical operations of autoclairvoyance and auto-PK.

This leads me to an unusual prediction, namely, that allo-PK should work more successfully when directed toward
super-complex systems, such as brains or huge computers, rather than when directed toward simple physical tasks: it's
what the M/L system is used to doing, and habit is hard to break. Further, we probably can't reliably detect differences
in PK efficacy for simple tasks that involve, say, influencing one versus ten decision-making elements. They are all
ridiculously simple; we need to compare PK on single decision making RNGs versus those that employ millions or
more of interacting decision-making elements leading to a random output.

A similar line of thinking might be applied to ESP tasks; perhaps ESP is more successful at detecting the overall pattern
of complex elements than at picking out single elements.

Out-of-the-Body Experiences

Out-of-the-body experiences (OBEs) are especially interesting from a dualistic point of view. While there are both a
wide variety of experiences and much looseness in the use of the term OBE, the basic, "classical" experience that we
will consider here has two distinguishing elements. First, the experiencer finds himself located at some location other
than where he knows his physical body is located. Second, and of crucial importance in definition, the experiencer
knows during the experience that his consciousness is basically functioning in the pattern he recognizes as his ordinary
state. He can call upon most or all of his ordinary cognitive abilities during the OBE, typically recognizing, e.g.. the
"impossibility" of his ongoing experience according to what he has been taught. As far as he can tell, he is perfectly
"normal" in all mental ways that matter; it's just that he is obviously located somewhere other' than where his physical
body is.

Although some people manage to retrospectively talk themselves out of their experience, most people who have an
OBE become confirmed dualists on an experiential basis. No matter what "logical" arguments one may make, they
know that their consciousness is of a different nature than their physical body, because they've experienced them as
separated.

As an outsider, listening to someone else's account of his OBE, we can dismiss the implications of his experience and
remain convinced monists without much psychological effort. The OBE, as defined so far, can be seen as an interesting
hallucination. It is like a dream in that a realistic, but hallucinatory environment is present. but obviously certain other
parts of the B system responsible for ordinary consciousness are also activated. Indeed, if the experiencer would only
call his experience a "lucid dream," instead of an OBE, that is. stop insisting that his experience was real and agree with
our view that it was hallucinatory. even if it seemed real, he would not bother a confirmed monist. It is easy from a
monistic point of view to model brain functioning that would create a lucid dream.

As defined so far, OBEs could easily' be included within the domain of ordinary psychology (although they are not),
for I haven't put any psi element into the definition. Indeed, it is useful to define them in purely psychological terms
just to make them legitimate subjects for investigation by psychologists who might shy away from psi phenomena. But
we know, of course, that in some OBEs the person accurately describes a distant location that he could not have known
about except by psi, as when my Miss Z correctly read a five-digit random number on a shelf above her head (Tart,
1968).

Because of the strong psi component of some OBEs, I am inclined, from an Emergent Interactionist position. to take
them as being pretty much what they seem to be, a temporary spatial/functional separation of the M/ L system from the
B system. The separation is not only temporary (otherwise we wouldn't get any report!). It is probably only partial, with
the M/L system still interacting with the B system to some extent. Several aspects of OBEs support this partial
separation view.

First, in most OBEs the person experiences his consciousness as very like ordinary. yet ordinary consciousness arises
as an emergent from B and M/ L system interaction and mutual patterning. This suggests that a great deal if this

interaction is still occurring, and/or that the force of habit, the lifetime practice of this patterning is still fairly active in
the M/ L system alone.

Second, in cases of prolonged more than a few minutes apparent duration) OBEs, or people who have had many OBEs,
or OBEs associated with severe disruption of physical functioning as in near-death cases, consciousness as experienced
tends to drift away from its ordinary patterning into various d-ASC. The OBE starts to become "ineffable," or more of a
"mystical experience." even though it retains the basic feeling of separation of B and M/ L systems. This is what we
would expect for greatly reduced auto-psi interaction between these two systems; both the B system and the M/ L
system would start drifting toward unique patterns of functioning determined by their own inherent characteristics, now
manifesting as they are freed from mutual interactive patterning of each other. Indeed, it is these kinds of unusual
OBEs that may give us valuable insights into what the M/L system in and of itself may be like, unpatterned by the B
system.

Third, the sparse (and largely anecdotal) evidence we have on it suggests that there are few, if any, physiological
changes of great consequence during brief OBEs. The B system functions pretty much as usual. But during temporarily
prolonged OBEs, larger and potentially fatal physiological changes may begin to occur. Robert Monroe, for example,
reports that his body has been quite chilled following prolonged OBEs (Monroe, 1971). I see this as showing that life
and consciousness, as we know them, arise from the mutual interaction and patterning of the B and M/ L systems, and
when the patterning of the M/L system upon the B system begins to break down, the brain by itself cannot adequately
run the complex system of the body, and small errors start to cumulate. In principle, this would eventually lead to
death.

Survival

The Emergent Interactionist position allows for some kinds of potential survival of bodily death, but it would not
necessarily be the kind of postmortem survival we usually conceive of. Our usual conceptions of survival mean
survival of the basic pattern of our consciousness, our experience of our mental life, our feelings of personal identity.
But consciousness, as we have seen, is an emergent of the auto-psi interactions of both the B and the M/ L systems, an
emergent of constant patterning of each system upon the other. If the B system ceases functioning in death, the
patterning influence of the B system upon the M/ L system will cease, so how is ordinary consciousness, as we know it,
to survive? What is the emergent to emerge from?

One answer may be that personal identity, which is so intimately intertwined with ordinary consciousness (see my
States of Consciousness for a discussion of this, Tart. 1975a), does not survive death, at least not for very long. The
M/L system may survive, with the length of postmortem survival being determined by currently unknown
characteristics of M/ L systems in general, but this is survival of some aspect of a person, not the person. Indeed, we
would expect this aspect to be quite different from the person.

This answer should be partially modified by referring back to our discussion of OBEs, where we noted that rather
ordinary consciousness is frequently maintained for at least short periods in many OBEs. The customary patterning of
the M/L system by the B system is thus capable, at least for short periods, of continuing to pattern the M/L system with
reduced or perhaps temporarily eliminated auto-psi interaction. The patterning parameters may be stored in something
analogous to ordinary "memory" in the M/L system, or the M/L system may be permanently or semi-permanently
modified in its own stable pattern of functioning as a result of prolonged auto-psi interaction with the B system in its
developmental history.

If B system patterning and consequent "ordinary" consciousness can manifest in the M/L system alone, at least
temporarily in OBEs, then it is possible to conceive of survival of personal identity in at least some people. To the
degree that a particular person's sense of identity was not strongly and permanently patterned in the M/ L system per se,
but was supported largely through environmental, bodily, and social constancies patterned in the B system, then we
would expect the emergent of consciousness and personal identity to disintegrate rapidly once the B system ceased
functioning. At the other extreme, if basic personal identity and consciousness patterns were strongly and permanently
stored at the M/L level, for whatever reasons, such a person might withstand the loss of B system patterning influence
and still maintain consciousness and personal identity patterning in the M/ L system after death, thus achieving

personal survival. Such intense patterning of the M/ L system might arise for a variety of reasons, such as deliberate
practice of meditative techniques or sheer psychological rigidity and fanaticism.

It would be premature to compare this Emergent Interactionist view with the data about mediumistic communications,
as that is an area of complex phenomena strongly affected by social beliefs and experimenter/sitter biases.

What Can We Learn about the M/L System in Isolation?

As discussed earlier, we ordinarily know almost nothing about what the M/L system per se is like, the consciousness
we experience is an emergent from the extensive interactions and mutual patternings of the B and M/L systems. Yet I
believe we can learn at least some things about the properties of the M/ L system in and of itself, when it is not
patterned, or at least is patterned to a much lesser degree by the B system.

The characteristics of allo-psi processes give us some clue to what the M/L system is like, so that we can generally say
that the M/L system is probably capable of gathering information about and affecting at least some aspects of physical
reality which are sensorily/energetically remote and shielded from the B system by either spatial shields or distances or
temporal distances. That is, the M/L system can exercise allo-psi of the clairvoyant and psychokinetic type, either in
real time or precognitively, and possibly postcognitively. Although there is little evidence for ~pure" telepathy (where a
clairvoyance interpretation of the data is completely excluded). I shall presume that the M/L system can also exercise
allo-telepathy in both real time and preand postcognitively.

As far as ordinary physical limits are concerned, our present knowledge of allo-psi indicates no obvious limits, but we
have really only investigated a quite limited range of physical variables. There may well be limits inherent in the nature
of psi that are perceptible from the point of view of the M/L system. even if not detectable from physical measures.
This last point about the detectability of limits or characteristics of psi being related to the perspective from which it is
viewed, leads us to a specific proposal within a more general conceptual framework that I have written about elsewhere
(Tart, 1972; 1975a; 1975b), namely the development of state specific sciences as a means of understanding psi.

The consciousness in which we ordinarily carry out scientific research is an emergent from auto-psi interaction between
the B and M/L systems. It is not unlimited consciousness, but a specific kind of consciousness. Its characteristics and
limitations are governed by the inherent properties of the B system, the inherent properties of the M/ L system, the laws
which govern auto-psi interaction, and the general laws of emergence which we hope to understand adequately some
day through development of general systems theory. The part of all this to emphasize for our purposes is that ordinary
consciousness has limitations, limitations in the way reality can be perceived, limitations in the kinds of concepts that
can be generated about reality and limitations in the way such concepts can be tested.

While 1 believe that a great deal can be learned about psi from skillful scientific work in our ordinary state of
consciousness, I suspect that important aspects of it will not be comprehensible, will remain paraconceptual to ordinary
consciousness because of these limitations. The little scientific and anecdotal knowledge we have about the range of
functioning available in various d-ASC, however, suggests that there are alternative modes of consciousness, quite
different emergents from B and M/L system interaction, that may yield more useful perceptions of, concepts about and
tests of psi functioning. The paraconceptual aspect of psi is not saying something about any inherent perversity in the
universe; it is saying something about the limitations of ordinary consciousness.

In discussing OBEs, I suggested that certain OBEs show more drastic alterations in consciousness because there is
greatly reduced B and M/ L interaction, so the consciousness experienced reflects M/ L characteristics per se more than
ordinary consciousness does. I have also suggested that in general some d-ASC may come about through reduced B
and M/L system interaction. The state-specific sciences that could potentially be developed for these d-ASC then,
including OBEs, could lead us to increased experiential and scientific knowledge about the M/L system under
conditions of greatly reduced interaction with the B system, from which we could make more accurate extrapolations to
what the totally isolated M/ L system would be like.

Our knowledge base is too small to warrant further speculation now about specific d-ASC and directions of
development that will be useful for understanding psi, but this is the direction I ultimately see the field going in.

Summary

I have proposed the beginnings of a dualistic theory of consciousness, Emergent Interactionism, which is intended to be
scientifically useful and has empirical, testable consequences. The existence of psi phenomena, which are
paraconceptual for a physicalistic monism, is the basic evidence for a pragmatic dualism, a recognition of the need to
understand consciousness in terms of two qualitatively different aspects of reality, what I have called the B system, the
brain, body, and nervous system and the physical laws which govern it, and the M/L system, the mental and life aspects
of reality. Consciousness is seen as a system property, an emergent from the auto-psi interaction of the B and M/L
systems. Ultimate understanding of consciousness, then, while it requires further and extensive development of
conventional approaches in the study of brain functioning and physical law, also requires extensive development of our
knowledge of psi, as well as development of general systems theory so principles of emergence in complex systems can
be better understood. While this view is complex, it is more adequate to the reality of psi than a physicalistic monism,
and exciting discoveries await us!

Charles T. Tart

Footnotes

This article has no footnotes.

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