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68 CONVERSATION

freely, and talking about a religious experience?

I he issue seems to be one of materiał proof. Tom was happy to talk about certain kinds of beliefs and experiences because in his mind he was able to provide tangible evidence that they ‘really happened’. He was perfectly well aware that we live in a scientific age where physical proof that fits with the canons of the scientific method is highly prized. Tom tried hard to keep these two distinct parts of his experience together: his keen spiritual awareness and love of mystery, and his need for a secure basis in the proven physicality of the world. He was able to keep these two in tension with his highly materialistic understanding of spirituality, but it was not so easy with his experience of sitting praying in an empty hospital corridor.

Tangible proof is a theme running throughout Torns conversa-tion. He States that the reason he believes scientists is that they have facts and proof, and that he would even believe in a religion such as Christianity if they could show him some physical evidence.

I don’t mind the idea of believing in something, if it’s there in my face and I know it’s there. But I haven’t been given any other, any, any factual evidence and 1 do go a lot on sort of facts.

No wonder he described his experience in the hospital as ‘so bizarre’ and 'really, really weird’.

Unlike Matthew, Tom did not focus on a critique of the institu-tional church or Christian doctrine. It was as if these were so far removed from his life that they did not figurę in his reflections on spirituality at all. But there is a contradiction here once again, as he did admit to being interested in church buildings. He even said that sińce the focus group meeting he had found he wanted to go into churches as he walked past them.

I’ve been past a couple of churches and just felt a need to go in. Although Fm not spiritual (sic). Which is sort of quite strange for me. 1 do get a little impulse now and then but I just shrug it off...

What is this impulse? It seems to be linked with Toms interest in atmospheres and, once morę, his desire for tangible evidence of the spiritual worki. He tried to explain his reasons in this way:

Maybe 1 want to believe. Maybe there’s a sense of I want to

believe in something definite and concrete and maybe I’ve got the idea that if I go in at that moment, I might see something.

Churches are not dead, empty shells for Tom, they have the potential to reveal spiritual truths. His experience is that the walls carry a reverberation of the beliefs and prayers of people throughout history, and he finds this appealing,

Rock, brick - it’s like a tape recorder. It echoes things from the past.

But there is never any sense that Tom wishes to belong to the present day community of faith. This is simply not an option for him. Religion is forever linked with the Songs of Praise programme on Sunday evening television, and the rush to see which member of the household can switch it off first. It has nothing to do with Tom’s personal belief system.

Tom illustrates a tension which exists in nearly all the conversa-tions: how to maintain one’s integrity as a member of a supposedly highly rational, logical, scientific culture and yet at the same time allow one’s spiritual awareness to flourish. His conversation may be confused and self-contradictory at times, but this is precisely because he is attempting to hołd these two contrasting worldviews together. Tom is aware of the prohibition surrounding admitting to one’s own spirituality, but seemed to value the opportunity to share his thoughts in the research conversation. After being asked why he was interested in spirituality, Tom replied:

It’s just a sense of, er, I dont know. It’s a sense of wonder, isnt it? If everything’s as black and white as everybody wants it to be painted, the world would be a duli and boring place. And, and it’s the not knowing. It’s not, it’s like is there life on other planets? It’s the not knowing. [It’s the mystery?] Yeah. I think if something came down and presented itself to you then the mystery would be gone ...'See, Tm not really weird [followed by laughter].

'WE'RE ALL HEADING FOR THE SAME PLACE'

In two respects Stephanie was rather different from almost all the other people involved in the research. Whereas most of them lived in